Comments on: The Function of Divine Election: Part 1 http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2009/11/the-function-of-divine-election/ Thu, 26 Jan 2012 19:20:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Jack Oakes http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2009/11/the-function-of-divine-election/comment-page-1/#comment-204550 Jack Oakes Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:15:35 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2065#comment-204550 Joseph, The fairness of election is always the sticking point for people. They say that because God chose some to election that he chose the rest to go to hell. God wills that none perish and Jesus died for the sins of all according to the bible (not Calvinists). Jesus made provision for and God would be ecstatic if someone not chosen were able to overcome and obtain saving faith. The end of 2nd Timothy says to "instruct those who oppose themselves, peradventure God gives them repentance so that they can recover THEMSELVES, out of the snare of the devil". Of course they catch 22 is that unless one was chosen, it is virtually impossible to overcome. I would use this argument toward Christians not believing in divine election, but most are so hostile to the idea that conversation is virtually impossible. It is not a doctrine for "babes in Christ" and the gospel should be heralded long before springing this upon someone or better yet, leaving it to the Holy Spirit to reveal it as he has done with me. God Bless !!! Joseph,
The fairness of election is always the sticking point for people. They say that because God chose some to election that he chose the rest to go to hell.
God wills that none perish and Jesus died for the sins of all according to the bible (not Calvinists). Jesus made provision for and God would be ecstatic if someone not chosen were able to overcome and obtain saving faith. The end of 2nd Timothy says to “instruct those who oppose themselves, peradventure God gives them repentance so that they can recover THEMSELVES, out of the snare of the devil”.
Of course they catch 22 is that unless one was chosen, it is virtually impossible to overcome.
I would use this argument toward Christians not believing in divine election, but most are so hostile to the idea that conversation is virtually impossible.
It is not a doctrine for “babes in Christ” and the gospel should be heralded long before springing this upon someone or better yet, leaving it to the Holy Spirit to reveal it as he has done with me. God Bless !!!

]]> By: Election: Definition via Function « ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ (in Christ Jesus) http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2009/11/the-function-of-divine-election/comment-page-1/#comment-205 Election: Definition via Function « ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ (in Christ Jesus) Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:15:36 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2065#comment-205 [...] leave a comment » The Fish Tank (the blog of the Harvard Ichthus) has an insightful piece on the doctrine of election. While it won’t satisfy all the theological and philosophical inquiries of this controversy, it provides an interesting angle that is not always observed. See “The Function of Divine Election: Part 1:. [...] [...] leave a comment » The Fish Tank (the blog of the Harvard Ichthus) has an insightful piece on the doctrine of election. While it won’t satisfy all the theological and philosophical inquiries of this controversy, it provides an interesting angle that is not always observed. See “The Function of Divine Election: Part 1:. [...]

]]> By: Cameron D. Kirk-Giannini http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2009/11/the-function-of-divine-election/comment-page-1/#comment-204 Cameron D. Kirk-Giannini Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:51:04 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2065#comment-204 Hey Nick, I love your approach here. In fact, I think it's the /only/ appropriate approach. After all, the Scriptures seem almost totally unconcerned with telling us what election /is/, focusing instead (as you point out) on its practical significance. We are therefore obliged to begin by understanding the purpose of election and only when we have done so to hazard a guess about what it is or how it works. Starting the other way is dangerous and even foolish. In general, I think we often jump to metaphysical/theological conclusions about issues discussed in scripture without understanding that our conclusions are hypothetical or at least inferential. Hey Nick,

I love your approach here. In fact, I think it’s the /only/ appropriate approach. After all, the Scriptures seem almost totally unconcerned with telling us what election /is/, focusing instead (as you point out) on its practical significance. We are therefore obliged to begin by understanding the purpose of election and only when we have done so to hazard a guess about what it is or how it works. Starting the other way is dangerous and even foolish.

In general, I think we often jump to metaphysical/theological conclusions about issues discussed in scripture without understanding that our conclusions are hypothetical or at least inferential.

]]> By: Nick Nowalk http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2009/11/the-function-of-divine-election/comment-page-1/#comment-200 Nick Nowalk Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:54:52 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2065#comment-200 Actually, that claim (which may or may not be true) is one that I've intentionally laid to the side so far and tried to stay neutral on. In waiting to define what election IS and focusing on what election DOES in the Bible, I hoped to forge some rare common ground at the start of the discussion. Because as I mentioned, all Christians believe in election--they just have wildly varying ways of understanding what it means. Here I am merely aiming to describe the function of what election (whatever it means!) does within the contexts it appears in. Actually, that claim (which may or may not be true) is one that I’ve intentionally laid to the side so far and tried to stay neutral on.

In waiting to define what election IS and focusing on what election DOES in the Bible, I hoped to forge some rare common ground at the start of the discussion. Because as I mentioned, all Christians believe in election–they just have wildly varying ways of understanding what it means. Here I am merely aiming to describe the function of what election (whatever it means!) does within the contexts it appears in.

]]> By: J. Joseph Porter http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2009/11/the-function-of-divine-election/comment-page-1/#comment-199 J. Joseph Porter Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:49:44 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2065#comment-199 If we believe that God is loving and merciful, and if we believe that God calls "not because of holiness" (i.e., not because of any inherent worth in one person over another), then how is it fair for God not to call everyone? If we believe that God is loving and merciful, and if we believe that God calls “not because of holiness” (i.e., not because of any inherent worth in one person over another), then how is it fair for God not to call everyone?

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