Comments on: The Meaning of Baptism: Part 1 http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/02/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-1/ Thu, 26 Jan 2012 19:20:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: wayne collins http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/02/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-50128 wayne collins Sat, 09 Jul 2011 14:12:02 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2650#comment-50128 You stated we are saved by "faith alone"...Luther's "Sola Fide"...not found in the Bible. What about repentance and confession? Can one be saved without these? Look at John 12:42-43 where many among the leaders BELIEVED, but were unwilling to confess Him. Were they saved? Brothers, Jesus said in vss. 47-48 that His very words would judge us. What did He say about baptism? Mk16:15-16 "he that believes and is BAPTIZED will be saved;John 3:5 "unless born of water and the Spirit can't enter kingdom of heaven. " The Word is the judge and it says over and over and in so many ways that one must be baptized to receive forgiveness. How about Jas 2:14-26? That teaches that we are not justified by faith only. Luther called James the "straw epistle", as it did not agree with his theology. But, as pointed out, we are judged by the Word and not Luther. You stated we are saved by “faith alone”…Luther’s “Sola Fide”…not found in the Bible. What about repentance and confession? Can one be saved without these? Look at John 12:42-43 where many among the leaders BELIEVED, but were unwilling to confess Him. Were they saved? Brothers, Jesus said in vss. 47-48 that His very words would judge us. What did He say about baptism? Mk16:15-16 “he that believes and is BAPTIZED will be saved;John 3:5 “unless born of water and the Spirit can’t enter kingdom of heaven. ” The Word is the judge and it says over and over and in so many ways that one must be baptized to receive forgiveness. How about Jas 2:14-26? That teaches that we are not justified by faith only. Luther called James the “straw epistle”, as it did not agree with his theology. But, as pointed out, we are judged by the Word and not Luther.

]]> By: wayne collins http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/02/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-50122 wayne collins Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:49:08 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2650#comment-50122 After reading your thoughts again...wanted to respond specifically. How about looking anew at your example of "a professing Christian for six months" through the lens of Saul of Tarsus' conversion in Acts 22. He accepted Jesus as Lord in vs.8 confirmed by asking what he must do in vs.10 and then, to use modern evangelical parlance, "prayed Jesus into his heart" for 3 days. According to what you teach, he would have been saved after coming to believe in Jesus on the Damascus Road. The Bible teaches that he was still lost until he was baptized and had his sins washed away. vs.16 "And now what are you waiting for, get up and be baptized and wash your sins away" After reading your thoughts again…wanted to respond specifically. How about looking anew at your example of “a professing Christian for six months” through the lens of Saul of Tarsus’ conversion in Acts 22. He accepted Jesus as Lord in vs.8 confirmed by asking what he must do in vs.10 and then, to use modern evangelical parlance, “prayed Jesus into his heart” for 3 days. According to what you teach, he would have been saved after coming to believe in Jesus on the Damascus Road. The Bible teaches that he was still lost until he was baptized and had his sins washed away. vs.16 “And now what are you waiting for, get up and be baptized and wash your sins away”

]]> By: wayne collins http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/02/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-49800 wayne collins Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:53:56 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2650#comment-49800 I really look forward to your continued study. I too have a high view of Scripture...absolutely God's Word and absolutely true. The problem lies with us mortals. We want it our way and not God's. Two frightening passages to me are Matt 7:21-26 and 2 Thes 2:9-12. The former says that many sincere believers will stand at the Day of Judgement and be lost because they did not build their lives on the truth of God's Word...the latter says if we don't love the truth, God will let us believe a lie. I believe none would want to be found in either situation. I appreciate your knowledge and use of church history. I know of a church historian that studied his way into being immersed for the forgiveness of sins by studying what the ancient church fathers taught and practiced prior to the apostasy...looked int he Bible and saw what he had never seen. A study of church history indicates that the modern children of the Protestant Reformation get their theology for salvation from Luther's "Sola Fide" put forth in 1545. Luther was trying to teach against "Works Righteousness" of the Roman Church. Because of that thinking many teach that baptism is a work and thus not necessary for salvation...what they don't understand is that Jesus taught that belief or faith is a work. John 6:28-29. I believe with all my heart that there is nothing I can do to earn my salvation Eph 2:8-9 and that I am saved by grace through faith. But if you consider what the Bible says in order to receive salvation one must Believe, Mark 16:15-16, Confess Rom 10:9-10, Repent Acts 2:38 and be baptized Mark 16:15-16, John 3:3-5, Acts 22:16, Gal 3:26-27, Col 2:9-13, and 1 Pet 3:21....you can see that all but baptism is something you do. Baptism is the only thing that is done to you. You mentioned that it's all about the Gospel and I agree. What is the Gospel? According to 1 Cor 15:1-4 it is the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of our Lord. Why is this important to know. Well according to 2 Thes:1:7-9 if we want to go to heaven, we must know God and OBEY The Gospel. The question is, how does one obey the Death, Burial and Resurrection 2,000 years after it happened. Read Rom 6:1-5. We obey the Gospel by our baptism into Christ. Brothers there is just too much teaching in the New Testament about Baptism to denigrate its value...we do so at our peril. I really look forward to your continued study. I too have a high view of Scripture…absolutely God’s Word and absolutely true. The problem lies with us mortals. We want it our way and not God’s. Two frightening passages to me are Matt 7:21-26 and 2 Thes 2:9-12. The former says that many sincere believers will stand at the Day of Judgement and be lost because they did not build their lives on the truth of God’s Word…the latter says if we don’t love the truth, God will let us believe a lie. I believe none would want to be found in either situation. I appreciate your knowledge and use of church history. I know of a church historian that studied his way into being immersed for the forgiveness of sins by studying what the ancient church fathers taught and practiced prior to the apostasy…looked int he Bible and saw what he had never seen. A study of church history indicates that the modern children of the Protestant Reformation get their theology for salvation from Luther’s “Sola Fide” put forth in 1545. Luther was trying to teach against “Works Righteousness” of the Roman Church. Because of that thinking many teach that baptism is a work and thus not necessary for salvation…what they don’t understand is that Jesus taught that belief or faith is a work. John 6:28-29. I believe with all my heart that there is nothing I can do to earn my salvation Eph 2:8-9 and that I am saved by grace through faith. But if you consider what the Bible says in order to receive salvation one must Believe, Mark 16:15-16, Confess Rom 10:9-10, Repent Acts 2:38 and be baptized Mark 16:15-16, John 3:3-5, Acts 22:16, Gal 3:26-27, Col 2:9-13, and 1 Pet 3:21….you can see that all but baptism is something you do. Baptism is the only thing that is done to you. You mentioned that it’s all about the Gospel and I agree. What is the Gospel? According to 1 Cor 15:1-4 it is the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of our Lord. Why is this important to know. Well according to 2 Thes:1:7-9 if we want to go to heaven, we must know God and OBEY The Gospel. The question is, how does one obey the Death, Burial and Resurrection 2,000 years after it happened. Read Rom 6:1-5. We obey the Gospel by our baptism into Christ. Brothers there is just too much teaching in the New Testament about Baptism to denigrate its value…we do so at our peril.

]]> By: A Great Series Beginning on Baptism | as i travel thru ThisPilgrimLand http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/02/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-1331 A Great Series Beginning on Baptism | as i travel thru ThisPilgrimLand Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:22:42 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2650#comment-1331 [...] guys over at the Fish Tank (the blog of the Harvard Ichthus) are beginning a series on baptism for their readers.  If you have not read their site before, it is a very well prepared and presented site.  I advise [...] [...] guys over at the Fish Tank (the blog of the Harvard Ichthus) are beginning a series on baptism for their readers.  If you have not read their site before, it is a very well prepared and presented site.  I advise [...]

]]> By: Steven Hovater's Blog » Blog Archive » Baptismal Discussion at Harvard Ichthus http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/02/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-1311 Steven Hovater's Blog » Blog Archive » Baptismal Discussion at Harvard Ichthus Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:13:23 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2650#comment-1311 [...] Here is a interesting bit I ran into today, from a pretty nifty Christian blog based out of Harvard.  I’m interesting in seeing how their conversation develops, and would really like to know the background of the participants. [...] [...] Here is a interesting bit I ran into today, from a pretty nifty Christian blog based out of Harvard.  I’m interesting in seeing how their conversation develops, and would really like to know the background of the participants. [...]

]]> By: brett’s morning blend (03mar10) « aliens and strangers http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/02/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-1214 brett’s morning blend (03mar10) « aliens and strangers Wed, 03 Mar 2010 05:15:57 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2650#comment-1214 [...] The Meaning of Baptism [...] [...] The Meaning of Baptism [...]

]]> By: Jordan Monge http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/02/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-1119 Jordan Monge Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:21:12 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2650#comment-1119 Guys, you have no idea how much I am looking forward to reading this discussion. Nick, you really have too much of a problem with country music. How can you not appreciate the insightful and heart-wrenching lyrics of Taylor Swift's "Love Story?" Come on! As much as I disagree on your musical taste, I really appreciate your idea of testing our theological systems by asking if the writers of the New Testament would write in the same way. I'd never thought of it that way before. Thanks! Guys, you have no idea how much I am looking forward to reading this discussion.

Nick, you really have too much of a problem with country music. How can you not appreciate the insightful and heart-wrenching lyrics of Taylor Swift’s “Love Story?” Come on!

As much as I disagree on your musical taste, I really appreciate your idea of testing our theological systems by asking if the writers of the New Testament would write in the same way. I’d never thought of it that way before. Thanks!

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