Comments on: The Meaning of Baptism: Part 3 http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/03/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-3/ Thu, 26 Jan 2012 19:20:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: J. Joseph Porter http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/03/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-1295 J. Joseph Porter Tue, 09 Mar 2010 16:18:36 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2757#comment-1295 Catherine, Some time ago, I had a discussion with someone who wanted to distinguish between water and Spirit baptism as two separate events. I put my thoughts here: http://jopofosho.tumblr.com/post/437028266/holy-spirit-baptism. It's not terribly well organized or well thought out, but I think you can get the gist of why I would reject distinguishing the two. Catherine,

Some time ago, I had a discussion with someone who wanted to distinguish between water and Spirit baptism as two separate events. I put my thoughts here: http://jopofosho.tumblr.com/post/437028266/holy-spirit-baptism. It’s not terribly well organized or well thought out, but I think you can get the gist of why I would reject distinguishing the two.

]]> By: Nick Nowalk http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/03/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-1286 Nick Nowalk Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:55:05 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2757#comment-1286 Hey Catherine, that's a great question, and the (possible) distinction between water and Spirit baptism often plays a crucial role in these debates. However, I'm fairly sure that both Joseph and I would agree that these two are never separated in the NT, and that there is not a "metaphorical" Spirit baptism and a literal or physical water baptism in various passages individually. However, I would still make a theoretical or logical distinction between the two: the former refers to receiving the Holy Spirit internally, the later refers to the act of going under the water (I'm not sure if Joseph would see this distinction as valid). But I never think "baptism" in the New Testament ONLY means one or the other. For that view ably defended, you can see James Dunn's book "Baptism in the Holy Spirit." Hope that helps! Hey Catherine, that’s a great question, and the (possible) distinction between water and Spirit baptism often plays a crucial role in these debates. However, I’m fairly sure that both Joseph and I would agree that these two are never separated in the NT, and that there is not a “metaphorical” Spirit baptism and a literal or physical water baptism in various passages individually. However, I would still make a theoretical or logical distinction between the two: the former refers to receiving the Holy Spirit internally, the later refers to the act of going under the water (I’m not sure if Joseph would see this distinction as valid). But I never think “baptism” in the New Testament ONLY means one or the other. For that view ably defended, you can see James Dunn’s book “Baptism in the Holy Spirit.” Hope that helps!

]]> By: Catherine Cook http://www.harvardichthus.org/fishtank/2010/03/the-meaning-of-baptism-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-1285 Catherine Cook Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:37:31 +0000 http://www.harvardichthus.org/?p=2757#comment-1285 I would like to start by thanking both of you for discussing such an important topic to the Christian faith. I was wondering if either of you were going to address a distinction that (I at least think) is evident in scripture: spiritual baptism v. water baptism. Nick, you seem to be on that path when you discuss receiving salvation by grace through faith rather than baptism. However, in even clearer language, scripture seems to be saying that salvation itself is a baptism. The passages I am specifically thinking of are Acts 1:5 when Jesus says "For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" and then later in Acts 10:47 when Peter says the gentiles had received this form of baptism before water baptism: "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." Having thought about this topic a lot, you both must have some thoughts on how this apparent distinction fits into your theology. This baptism is the baptism that I think actually grafts us into Christ. How would you both interpret these passages? I would like to start by thanking both of you for discussing such an important topic to the Christian faith. I was wondering if either of you were going to address a distinction that (I at least think) is evident in scripture: spiritual baptism v. water baptism. Nick, you seem to be on that path when you discuss receiving salvation by grace through faith rather than baptism. However, in even clearer language, scripture seems to be saying that salvation itself is a baptism. The passages I am specifically thinking of are Acts 1:5 when Jesus says “For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit” and then later in Acts 10:47 when Peter says the gentiles had received this form of baptism before water baptism: “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” Having thought about this topic a lot, you both must have some thoughts on how this apparent distinction fits into your theology. This baptism is the baptism that I think actually grafts us into Christ. How would you both interpret these passages?

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